Curve (Default or mode)

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Curve (Default or mode)

Post by GaDo1 on Fri May 30, 2014 6:39 pm

A little backstory:
The old curve mode, which existed in the game, has now been implemented as a default feature. There are some people who don't like it and some who like it.

General perceptions (just a few, not all):
For - Adds depth. New options for decision-making. Requires more positional awareness.

Against - Overpowered. Easy to use and master. Negates any positional awareness.

Question: Do you think curve should be default or not? Why/why not?

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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

Post by ShineXXX on Fri May 30, 2014 9:38 pm

i dont care. But i think there should be a mode to either deactive or activate it as long as there are different opinions.
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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

Post by ultrapro on Fri May 30, 2014 9:50 pm

It should be by default but... Is it possible to make it able for us to exclude it from the game? like -nocurve? (and -novmod)? The only problem is it may become as frequent as noc used to be. Thats my point

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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

Post by GaDo1 on Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:50 am

In my opinion, curve should be available as a mode, not as a default feature. Right now, the new version only appeals to those who like curve and leaves us who aren't fond of it as a default feature with no choice.

Why curve isn't suited to be a default feature, in my opinion, is because it negates any positional awareness.
If you are trying to position yourself to block any C passes to your mark, you will have to choose between positioning yourself for a normal C or a curved C.
Unfortunately you can't do both and this is not due to our inexperience with the feature, it's because the curved C is too strong.
The curve in which the ball curves, is impossible to block, as the passer can pass the ball out of your range.
It will be more of a 50/50 guessing game, playing against curve, rather than planning your next move on what is 100% likely to happen.

The feature has been designed so that only the ones using it, can enjoy it. People who will play against it will most likely feel helpless if there is a chance that a curved C will come.
That's the same thing that happened when C goals were disabled. They were disabled because it was too easy to score them and there was almost no way of stopping them, if you weren't really well positioned before-hand, which means almost camping at your own goal. In my opinion, C goals are less overpowered compared to curved C, but that's another discussion.

My conclusion is that, curve is designed for fun purposes only, because of how strong it is and how big the impact is with having curve as a default feature in the game. I wouldn't mind having it as a mode, to play it once in a while for fun, but other than that, curve is what will make the game more of a chance-based game instead of a tactical game.

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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

Post by Weeble on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:03 pm

I agree with everything gado said, curve is no doubt fun to use but the need for getting into the correct position for a pass is eliminated dramatically. Therefore, the talents (as I see it) of positioning and passing have also been eliminated as a player can still grab the ball, thanks to curve, when really he is out of position to do so.

I especially agree with the last part ''curve is what will make the game more of a chance-based game instead of a tactical game.'' The question is which do you want? My solution would be both, once these kit changes are made (keep the old ball and new music) I would suggest from this making an 'easy' version to host for newcomers, with c goals, curve, 5mins half default etc and a 'pro' version without curve or only as a mode.

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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

Post by ShineXXX on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:07 pm

well said, gado. I can also only agree with that.
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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

Post by Dafling on Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:20 am

I am going to add a -nocurve mode to the next version, and reduce curve angle from 30 to 20 degrees (normal C is 0 degrees) in an attempt to make it more balanced. I hesitate to drop it completely and leave it over as a mode, because people are generally unlikely to enable any modes at all, except maybe -xv. In my opinion curve deserves better than that, I mean look at it - it's a great idea which diversifies the gameplay mechanics while not changing gameplay all that much.

I believe curve should be default for some time before we can make a definitive conclusion on whether it is best to have it by default or as a mode. I will follow the "public opinion" trends, and if the sentiment you displayed does not change, I'll probably remove curve from the final version.

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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

Post by ultrapro on Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:00 pm

People who don't like gameplay changes can still play 44d, 41c and 1.41. I like the idea of curve, and it doesn't make it chance based. Removing curve isn't the same destructive for skill as removing, for example, VZ, only because the conservative players got used to VZ but didn't to curve. No one is god(except magics) and warcraft soccer gameplay has always been remarkable because of it's combination of skill and risk, which makes this game like real football in, probably, even higher degree, than physics and models. Don't think i mean to say you are all lazybones and your experience is too big, and that's why you don't want to see new changes. I want to say that playing style has always been affected player's personality and it's no only way to win in this game. Therefore the way you get used to it isn't connected much with the feature, because curve is not the feature that will devastate the map. And in early versions i suggest to keep -nocurve at least, so we can add new possibilities to the game.


You may rap out I was a noob, but if you say that, you will have to prove your point, BABY.

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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

Post by GaDo1 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:10 pm

Dafling wrote:In my opinion curve deserves better than that, I mean look at it - it's a great idea which diversifies the gameplay mechanics while not changing gameplay all that much.

That's the difference. In my opinion, curve changes the passing game completely. Not only that, it changes the defensive aspect aswell.. Just that is a big gameplay change already, don't you think?

ultrapro wrote:People who don't like gameplay changes can still play 44d, 41c and 1.41.

The problem is that "we" also want to enjoy the new visual aspects of the game, ex. kits, and we can only do that by playing the latest version.

ultrapro wrote:Therefore the way you get used to it isn't connected much with the feature, because curve is not the feature that will devastate the map.

No one said it would devastate the map. It's a feature that changes parts of the gameplay completely and changes the game to another type of game, "chance-based".

Why I see this feature as a problem, is because it was forcefully implemented as a default feature, rather than having everyone discuss it first. There will always be both positive and negative backlash if you just add something entirely new to the map. Although the feature isn't new, it being default is however and if there are great players with a great understanding of the game, I think the best would be to discuss it with them, instead of just adding a feature and making it default.
Yes, curve existed as a mode and no one played it before or wanted to try it (except for bread).. Now I can't speak for everyone, but personally I like playing the few games I can every day, improving what I know is crucial. But if there would've been a discussion about curve or even a date for when we could test it, it would be the complete opposite.

At the moment, I don't feel very convinced/"sold" on the new feature. So I would like to see more discussion and feedback about this feature here, so everyone can share and hopefully understand what will be the best for the game.
I'm writing this, so I make myself clear when you ask in the future why I'm not joining in on the latest version games.

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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

Post by ultrapro on Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:51 pm

GaDo1 wrote:
ultrapro wrote:Therefore the way you get used to it isn't connected much with the feature, because curve is not the feature that will devastate the map.

No one said it would devastate the map. It's a feature that changes parts of the gameplay completely and changes the game to another type of game, "chance-based".

Imo it's still not chance-based. Let's make the scale from 0 to 10: 0 is, for example, tic-tac-toe (3x3), 3 is chess and 9 is Are You A Lucker. Thus WS may have moved from 4 to, maximum, 5, because the feature added some possibilities to every position one takes in a game. If you still think logically, you can hold back curved C as any other skill. What about big changes in defense, i think, it can be compensated. Game shouldn't show anyone except the one who curves what side is the trajectory bended to.

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Re: Curve (Default or mode)

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